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Thread: Priceless

  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denali View Post
    I have 2 silly questions. What differences are there re plastic vs. metal tanks re charges building up, discharges, or grounding procedures? Also, aside from the common alligator clip attaching to a tie down or something....are there any neat solutions in terms of making a better grounding attachment ..maybe like an Anderson plug or something?
    I've always liked metal gas cans for a variety of reasons but none of them pertain to conductivity. At least not in the main. Static charge is what causes explosions and fires while handling flammable materials. Plastic gas cans don't conduct electricity worth a damn. What they will do though is accumulate charge. An airplane sitting on the ramp with a gentle breeze blowing does not in any normal sense present an electrical hazard but think for a moment about the last time you slid out of the pickup truck with those polyester seats and immediately touched the hangar door or an airplane on the ramp. Especially on a dry winter day. Zaaap! Fun isn't it. Shuffle your feet on the hallway carpet and then casually touch your little sister on the neck while she sits on the couch watching TV. Ha Ha Ha Ha. We are not generating electricity the way we do when we move a coil through a magnetic field. We are stripping electrons (negative charges) off of one surface and carrying them to discharge on to another surface.

    When liquids travel along in a pipe or tube they do the same thing. The American Petroleum Institute has done extensive studies on explosions and fires while handling product and found that transferring fuels presents the biggest hazard in the industry. When you fill a plastic jug with fuel at a service station, never leave the gas can in the bed of the truck. Take it out and set it on the ground. Concrete is not a very good conductor either but it will allow any build up of charge during filling to leak off and pass harmlessly into the ground. When it's full, put it back in the truck.

    When we replaced a section of pipeline we would normally suspend it in the air when transferring it from the truck to the vertical support members. We would use nylon straps as part of the suspension gear. While hanging there in the air the section of pipe would develop a tiny charge. My crew would use magnetic clamps and electrical cable with an explosion proof switch in series with it to bring the new section up to the same potential as the existing pipeline. Meanwhile we had safety guys all over the place using electronic sniffers looking for hydrocarbons in the air. It's a big deal. Two or three times a day there is a fire at a filling station someplace in the US. People get out of the car on a cold day, take off the gas cap and stick the filler neck into the car then get back in and close the door to stay warm. When the pump kicks off they slide out of the car and walk over and grab the grounded nozzle. Zaaap! Ninety-nine times out of a hundred there is not enough oxygen in the filler neck of the tank to sustain combustion so it goes out; woof! Be careful out there. Use good sense, bond yourself to aircraft structure before you fill the tank, touch the side of the pickup before you grab the filler hose, if filling from gas cans make sure the airframe is grounded and the plastic or metal can spends a few seconds on the ground before beginning to pour. Be careful.

    Dan

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by RANSCLAN.com View Post
    Glenn-isn't the can grounded by having it on the ground? Should it also be grounded to the airframe?
    A gas can on the ground is good. An airplane with rubber tires is NOT at the same potential as the gas can. Do something to make them be at the same potential.

  3. #163
    Premium Member (Donated) kiwiatd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenous View Post
    I think there is a little confusion between bonding and grounding.
    "I think there is a little confusion between bonding and grounding."

    If your plan is to educate all pilots on the difference between bonding and grounding, you are going to be a very busy man. Nearly every avgas browser I have seen said to "ground the fuel nozzle"
    Now while bonding is the correct term, can we just call it "grounding". I'm not smart enough to have to keep googling the correct meanings.

    Andrew

  4. #164
    Premium Member (Donated) kiwiatd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emory Bored View Post
    A gas can on the ground is good. An airplane with rubber tires is NOT at the same potential as the gas can. Do something to make them be at the same potential.

    In windknots situation, if you had a hose with a earth wire going all the way to the bottom of the plastic fuel drum, connected to the aircraft, would you also need to connect a earth from the aircraft to the ground ?

    Andrew

  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by s19flyer View Post
    Just love not being able to edit posts!
    Premium Members can edit their posts
    Mark Pensenstadler
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    S-10 | S-6S | RV-7 | Cherokee 160 | Zenith Cruzer

  6. #166
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiatd View Post
    "I think there is a little confusion between bonding and grounding."

    If your plan is to educate all pilots on the difference between bonding and grounding, you are going to be a very busy man. Nearly every avgas browser I have seen said to "ground the fuel nozzle"
    Now while bonding is the correct term, can we just call it "grounding". I'm not smart enough to have to keep googling the correct meanings.

    Andrew
    Call it what you want - I have no plan! But if you are one to rely on the bonding wire in the fuel nozzle - you are asking for trouble - very often those connections corrode and don't do diddly squat to bond anything. That is why it is recommended to always use a separate bonding or grounding strap (depending on where it goes) to the aircraft.

    Scotty

  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwiatd View Post
    In windknots situation, if you had a hose with a earth wire going all the way to the bottom of the plastic fuel drum, connected to the aircraft, would you also need to connect a earth from the aircraft to the ground ?

    Andrew
    Realistically? Probably not if I understand your question correctly. We need to discharge any arc that may occur before there is an explosive fuel air mixture present. When I first started flying we wore lap belts to keep us from flopping around inside the airplane during turbulence and mishaps. Later on, the NTSB started noticing dead pilots with altimeter adjustment knob sized holes punched in their foreheads after minor ground loop accidents. We started wearing shoulder restraint systems after arguing about it for a few years. I don't know what that has to do with anything.

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